we're overlooking the simple fact obama is not that good a debater. he wasn't that great a debater in the democratic primary. he did fine against john mccain but it wasn't acceptable. last night he clearly lost. one thing i'm hearing from democratic sources is he didn't end up with one of those moments that's going to haunt him. >> no, i don't think so. he doesn't lose any supporters and he certainly recovers from this, but we can't have any more like that. i say that. sam stein, e.j. dionne, great to have you with us tonight. >>> next, we debunk romney's $5 trillion tax lie with david k. johnston. stay with us. >>> mitt romney tried hard last night to make up ground with middle class voters. he put on quite a dog and pony show. tonight we'll remind you who the real mitt romney is with teamster's president james hoffa. stay with us. >>> first of all, i don't have a $5 trillion tax cut. i'm not looking for a $5 trillion tax cut. let me repeat what i said. i'm not in favor of a $5 trillion tax cut. that's not my plan. >> that was mitt romney trying to r